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the cross as a tree of life

Aug. 12th, 2014 | 03:28 pm
posted by: nobleprolet in challenging_god

Do you have more information on this? Up to now I saw the cross more as something I tried to avoid because it seemed to be much more about guilt and oh god how much you did for me, than as something truly effective in life. Since yesterday I have a better idea of it as a tree of life that is effective at destroying pain and suffering from my life. I heard this view is popular in the catholic church, but I don't know all that many thoughts about it. Anyone any recommendation?

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God and me - loneliness and independence

Nov. 23rd, 2012 | 08:53 am
posted by: mysterious_joy in challenging_god

This is actually an argument against living with God.

I would call it a psychological problem - that we naturally want to be alone within ourselves, and that this natural loneliness does not mean a necessarily bad experience of life. In fact, being alone, on your own, can be a very pleasing experience. To share your being with God, on the other hand, can be a cause for much anxiety, particularly in the christian context where God is sometimes referred to as our judge.

We'd like to stay within with ourselves and have no judge - so we might cultivate our independence. And independence seems to be important to pretty much all of us, as it affords us peace and a secure happiness.

Of course we also might come to suffer from our loneliness. Yet again this is not so necessarily, after all there are also other ways of sharing life with other persons because we're not alone on this world. It depends on which experiences we make, whether humans have really disappointed us or whether they were perhaps really good to us. As I know from my family and from friends, they try to build a life with each other and they are happy doing so.

It's another matter if we perceive God not as an enemy but as a friend, not as a Judge but as a Savior. At that point faith in God is a chance for transcendence, and it is both a transcending yourself and a transcending of the world. We get a shot at a richer life, and at getting to know someone who is rather pleasant to know. But that only really works if we see God as friendly and not as hostile or perhaps subjugating people as opposed to befriending and helping them.

Of course getting to such a view is not as easy as it seems because the bible has conflicting reports about God and who He is and how He acts. And it seems to me that one has to accept a specifically christian history of man before He can accept the biblical God.

That's why I think a better means to know God than by simply reading the bible, is to pursue theology and the study the history of man from all of what we have to study, ie other religions, philosophy, anthropology .. but most importantly, the study of man in his experience of life, in his suffering, in his noble attempts of understanding himself.

If we do that we might find the belief that before we can go at transcending ourselves or before we decide to give up into the spiritual to climb back in our "normal" life, before we do that we might think about the transcendence not of us but of God. And at that point we might feel drawn to the revelation of God as love - and that fits to the only reason why we should want to have a God, because love is really the best we have in ourselves.

A God who wants to live in genuine love with us should not be despised. And if He proves His love by dying for us, it's maybe better to see Him as a Stauffenberg, as an Abraham Lincoln, as a Spartacus or John F. Kennedy type of person, and not as an Inquisitor or harsh Judge or whatever.

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God is love and eternal punishment - is this the problem?

Nov. 16th, 2012 | 01:47 pm
posted by: mysterious_joy in challenging_god

I wanted to ask you about whether christianity as a faith and as a lifestyle would be more appealing to you if our holy text did not say that God would punish people with an eternty of conscious torment, if they didn't get saved.

Would there still be much that would keep you from believing in such a christian faith? What exactly would be keeping you from it still?

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...uhm...eep?

May. 17th, 2011 | 02:09 pm
location: 94306
mood: pensivepensive
music: The View
posted by: evilgrins in challenging_god

10:32 AM 5/17/2011 · While I understand some nutjob in Oakland has been latching onto this recently for popularity's sake, I initially heard about this about 3 years ago. As I've a hobby of tracking end of the world scenarios, I marked the date and kicked back to see what would happen.

I refer to Judegement Day, which is supposedly this coming Saturday.

Nice thing, as religious events go... Saturdays are usually casual!

What is it with '21' anyway? Even the Mayan thing is on a 21st. People can leglally imbibe alcohol, in the United States, when they turn 21...

So May 21st 2011 is Judegement Day. It's based on something or other, I've got a pamphlet on this somewhere (3 separate versions of which were handed to me at Chinese New Years' a couple years ago) or other but I'm not sure where it is now. It quotes a section of the Bible that speaks of Judgement Day (you can probably Google it) and a mathmatical calculation that includes the correctness of the Roman calendar system to get an accurate calculation of...

...well, this coming Saturday.

Here's the thing, a day is all well and good but it doesn't say when. I'm talking what hour. We've got the day but not a time and what with timezones I don't know if it's May the 21st where I live or in the section of the world the Bible was written.

If that confusing, trip this: in 1986 I took a plane from Boston to India and arrived the day before I left. Yeah, plane took off Wednesday and landed Tuesday the previous day.

As if the 21·hour plane ride wasn't traumatic enough!

As to what will supposedly happen... not a clue. There's the Left Behind theory, which that series was based on, that the 'faithful' will be taken to Heaven and leave the rest of us. Realistically they wouldn't just rise to Heaven, paradise will take your souls but not your bodies. So, to recap, just a bunch of people falling over dead all over the planet...

...although, from my understanding, the original interpretation wasn't so much the faithful as just God's Chosen. Basically, not the Christians. The Jews, religious or not, will all be taken to Heaven and the rest of us are left behind.

There's also those that believe Jesus will return, though that's not a great idea given the circumstances. Supposedly Jesus, who left as The Lamb, returns as The Lion and wages war on the Devil; the souls gone to Heaven in all the time prior battling all the evil of Hell as their armies. The fallout of which will annihilate the entire Earth, kill pretty much every living thing on the planet, and then whatever survives (even souls could be killed before that kinda onslaught) goes to Heaven and the Earth is left a burnt out cinder.

If you watch Supernatural you probably have heard the big showdown is actually Michael and Lucifer. I'm not sure if that's just a convenient story the series latched onto or if there's some actual old testament truth to that or not.

Ultimately it probably doesn't matter. I don't know that this is gonna happen, Judgement Day specifically, don't even know that I believe it. I mean there's still the Mayan thing and that equation Sir Isaac Newton came up with...

...if you don't know the latter, apparently other than 'discovering' gravity ol' Isaac shared my fascination with end of the world scenarios. In an intense study of the Bible he divined what he determined to be a Biblical code that led him to believe the world would indeed come to ane end.

Sometimes in the year 2060.

If I manage a semi·health life maybe I'll be around to see it.

If the Mayan thing or Saturday doesn't do me in first.

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Easter

Apr. 18th, 2011 | 04:46 pm
mood: curiouscurious
posted by: advoir in challenging_god

If Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
~1 Corinthians 15:17-19
Next Sunday, millions of Christians around the world will celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That means millions actually believe a Jewish rabbi who was executed for treason about two thousand years ago physically rose from the dead and is alive today. This belief is so central to the Christian religion that the Apostle Paul (quoted above) considered the entire faith worthless if isn't true.

So here is the challenge to our Christian readers:

1. Do you believe that Jesus Christ physically rose from the dead? If so, why?
2. Why should anybody else believe Jesus rose from the dead?

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(no subject)

Feb. 15th, 2011 | 02:02 am
posted by: rainer_rilke in challenging_god

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHD4HP1mauQ

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challenging_god

...uhm...

Oct. 26th, 2010 | 10:32 am
location: 94070
mood: confusedconfused
music: The View
posted by: evilgrins in challenging_god

Among some of the more questionable things Christine ODonnell (O'Donnell?) has said is her more recent statement that "God is praying for me".

Normally when people are well wishing towards others they pray to God for them. Does this seem to imply that God has a God or Gods? Otherwise it means God prays to Itself, which seems redundant to an extreme...as God wanting to wish good will to someone could be simply It just easily could do rather than try to convince Itself it should.

Thoughts?

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challenging_god

Coincidence?

Oct. 9th, 2010 | 10:39 am
posted by: duxrow in challenging_god

The "Fly Away" is from the Psalm of Moses, Ps90:10, which also speaks of the TEN which follows the 3-score (60 centuries?).

They chose their Passover Lamb on the 10th day, Ex12:3.

The Day of Atonement was on the 10th day, Lev23:27.

Now the 10th day of the 10th month of the 3rd Millenium (Day) since Calvary is upon us.

Noah "was perfect in his generations", Gen6:9. From father to son he was Tenth.. Then the DOOR was closed on the Ark.,.

Are we Ready? Think I've read it wrong?


..

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challenging_god

Some thoughts on religion

Sep. 27th, 2010 | 01:47 pm
mood: calmcalm
posted by: lucky_star10 in challenging_god


it told you not to kill and yet kills without mercy.

it told you not to kill unless someone commits adultery.

In that case stones must be thrown.

In that case killing is just fine and dandy.


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challenging_god

Who is the Lord really?

Sep. 7th, 2010 | 01:38 pm
location: 94306
mood: contemplativecontemplative
music: 106.9FM KCBS
posted by: evilgrins in challenging_god

10:23 AM 9/7/10 · An ongoing sore point for me has been when anyone refers to Jesus as the 'Lord'. It's not I think him undeserving of the title so much as it is that he didn't want any special treatment when he was alive. He seemed to prefer a simple life and no one to treat him any different than anybody else. So being called a Lord would seem to be something he wouldn't be in favor of.

It doesn't happen often but if some random Bible thumper happens upon me and asks if I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I say no and yes.

Always a fun conversation after that!

I've wondered on this and last night I had an epiphany...or just something random pop up just before I started dreaming. Managed to hang onto it until I woke up so here we go.

Did people refer to God, pre·Jesus, as the Lord?

I think they did and this may lend itself to the confusion. Having had numerous chats about this over the years with a host of people, mainly online, I've learned that where Jesus & God are concerned there's a lot of people that hold to 2 different opinions.

Some believe Jesus was the son of God.

Some believe Jesus literally was God made flesh.

There's not a lot of crossover there. Most everyone I've talked to that hold Jesus was not actually God do not see any wiggle room that he might possibly be, ditto vice versa. I come from a more polytheist bend so that even if you allow for the Trinity, Jesus is still not God. He may be A God, enough other children of deities are referred to as Gods at some point or other, but he's definitely not the Big Kahuna.

So, where do you stand on this? Do you think Jesus is God or just the son of? If God was called The Lord before Jesus was born is it possible Jesus is called this by those that believe he literally was God made flesh? Do you think, my 'no special treatment' thought in mind, that Jesus would've wanted to be referred to as Lord if he had a say in the matter?

On a random only vaguely related note, History Channel presented a random notion I'd not heard before a couple days ago. That after Jesus was executed and rose from the dead, he descended into Hell to free all those that had gone before but didn't deserve to be there. Line of thought seems to be in keeping with those that say only through acceptance of Jesus as your savior you are gifted with Heaven, that all those that died before his birth went straight to Hell.

Even Moses.

I've never liked this idea, and still don't, but I'd never heard this particular myth until just recently.

Thoughts?

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